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American choregraphers that are classically based. Also, in turn almost all the modern dance companies in the U.S. use ballet trained dancers, so that it has been a really successful merger. There are of course ballet people and modern dance people who are antagonistic toward each others' forms, but they're isolated.

Dennis: would add that ballet is surviving and that modern is dying, because modern has narrowed its base to the point where it is repeating itself. It's not picking up where it started, or where it left off. Now, it's just stopped and people are doing their own thing, so the form itself is not progressing. Everybody should do their own thing, but the technique hasn't gone anywhere, nor have the dancers whose bodies are not disciplined like they were in the 30's, 40's and 50's. Their bodies are not taught, they're not clean looking whereas ballet has taken on a sleeker line and has employed the modern, making the body more flexible. Modern ballet, has, in short, created the new classical technique of today.

High Gear: Local advertising has billed the ballet as "sensual." Is it the refined sensuality of ballet which makes it so attractive?

Dennis: Yes, I think the fact that you can make your body look better working in ballet technique. It does pull the body and the line it appoints you of a classical dancer used in a modern ballet does create sensuality. And there has to be that difference between male and female on stage. That's more important than anything, that the male body uses itself as a male body and the female body uses itself as a female body. When it's in contrast, when they start working in the opposite, there's no dance anymore, it becomes something

else, some kind of nymph or a quality of one person doing his own thing again. It is no longer a dance technique.

lan: That's a very good point because when you think about it there are only two instruments in dance, male and female, so it's extremely important that the man be male and the woman,

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female. Otherwise, you're back to a neuter situation and you're only dealing with one instrument, so you cut your vocabulary down much more... Androgyny rarely works, though the usual stereotype points in this direction. Ballet went through a period in the 18th and 19th century where the man was absolutely nothing. He was really called porter and he just carried the woman around and

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had 45 seconds of dance out of three hours. Partially it was because of the technique, partially because of the morals of the day, the Puritans and all this kind of nonsense, but that has changed tremendously, and in fact, mostly in the last five years. The male dancer is at his prime right now. Technique is

much more in the male dancer than the female dancer right now. The two great names that come to mind right away, Nureyev and Barishnikov, are ..male. That that is the case is indicative of what is happening in dance. Dance is very sexy. There's no way that you can put people on the stage naked, except for being clothed with leotards and tights, and have them relate each other man to

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woman, man to man, or woman to woman and not have some sort of a sexual relationship.

High Gear: It has been said that popular culture is rapidly making even such institutions as the Cleveland Orchestra anachronisms. Is this, in fact, happening to classical genres including ballet?

Dennis: No, the reverse is happening. That's probably why there is the big infiux of audience attendance. Dance is definitely a young people's sport. And it is young people who are the fastest growing sector of dance audiences.

lan: It's become a fad on college campuses. There are some statistics that claim on a college campus dance is more of an attraction than a rock concert. From all the audiences I've seen in my dance experiences around the country I'd say dance audiences range from 18-60. It's a real cross section whereas if you get into an orchestra situation you'll usually find you're in middle age: and above. Orchestras have done a great deal to change that, pillow concerts and things like that. The establishment is there. But we're also a visual society and there isn't anything more visual than dance.

High Gear: In your opinion are the Russian emigres such as Nureyev, Barishnikov, and the Panovs worthy of their publicity from the standpoint of talent?

Dennis: Well, they do have something different than we have here, especially Nureyev. No one had ever seen a dancer like him before. It may have been here but it never was taped. What makes Nureyev brilliant is that he is a fabulous performer. Some may disagree with the way he goes on the stage and his flambouyancy but he has the strength of both a dancer and a performer. He has the electricity. No one else I have seen in a long time comes across in that way, no matter if he's good or bad. When he's bad, he's bad to look at on a technical level, but he is never a bad performer. Now Barishnikov has technique but is not such a great performer. We have Alicia Alonso in the women, 56 years old and still a remarkable technician. She is the director of the Cuban ballet, though she was trained in America. She was one of the first ballerinas to achieve technique and performance ability together.

lan: Technical development is really a relatively new thing. Dance is very young as a performing art. As an art of expression it's probably the oldest.

Dennis: Everybody can dance. In the old days people would get on stage with great costume designers and hide themselves. And they all were performers or show-offs. They, of course, had no real technique. You wouldn't put people on the stage back then exposing private parts through leotards.

High Gear: Beverly Sills stated in a recent interview that the best training in opera can be had, not in Europe but in the U.S. Including or excluding the

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Soviet Union, could the same be said for ballet?

lan: The Soviet Union has the best classically trained oldfashioned romantic repertoire in the world. The Kirov School in Leningrad is without a doubt the finest institution of its kind, but a good dancer needs to be a broadly trained, versatile dancer, and that's why some defect. In the United States we produce the most versatile dancers anywhere.

Dennis: Too many of them. Not good ones, but we are producing more than we need. There are a lot of people who want to dance and not enough positions for them. Some colleges are turning dancers out by the hundreds each year with a diploma. But they can't go on stage with just a B.F.A.

lan: That I think is an extremely important thing about dance education. There is no university in the country which offers a dance program that is beneficial for anyone who desires to become a professional dancer. If someone wishes to become a professional, he or she should affiliate themselves with a school that has company affiliation. If they want to do something aligned to dance, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Then Julliard is still for someone who wants to choreograph or teach and be exposed to the greats, but the universities is not where one should go. The best schools are without a doubt the company related schools, and there are about 80 in the U.S.

High Gear: Is the association of gays with ballet a stereotype or a positive type?

lan: It's a stereotype. It's also positive in that there are homosexuals in ballet, and I'm glad. I'm also glad that there are heterosexuals. I think the illusion is that it is completely a homosexual world, and that's not so. In any given company or situation almost right down the line I would say that it's a healthy cross-section of homosexual and heterosexual.

Dennis: Just because a man is in tights and slippers doesn't make him any more or less a man, or whatever else it's supposed to be, but in most companies now I would say there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals.

High Gear: Why do you think gays are such great supporters of ballet?

Dennis: They are more so than heterosexuals and your better dancers are basically gay, at least male dancers because they enjoy their bodies more so. They will exude it more so than heterosexual men.

lan: O.K., well, that's true. See, you can't be uptight about your body as a dancer. And one of the biggest problems in dance is that many come into dance attracted by the athletic appeal of dance, but they're so afraid of losing any kind of masculinity that they hold back in their bodies.

Dennis: Or they're so butch with it that you think, "Well, you may as well drive a truck or